December 10, 2009 What if we are all wrong?
first off lemme say i love this site i read it all the time, i truely find it invaluable. i also read alot of the members personal blogs and i think there are some amazingly creative and intelligent people here….having said that WHAT IF WE ARE ALL WRONG!?
I would say(correct me if im wrong) most of the people here are definitly team music 2.0, we are not afraid of technology we embrace it, we use it to try and create lasting impressions on people, the “other side” well not so much or rather they are slow at accepting what music has becoming or is becoming, because we all know the game is constantly changing, and sometimes they even refuse to change
i find myself reading this site and others and going wow thats an amazing idea half the time i read something, but I get the impression that there are alot of people myself included, along with most of the people who post on here or have their own blogs……(im not quite sure with how to say this cause i know its going to come out wrong so hang with me while im trying to get to the point) they may have a great idea how to do this or do that or general guidlines of what to do or not do, some even have grand ideas of things that are “game changing” but it seems to me it all boils down to the industry is screwed up and all over the place and everyone is just trying to find their way…..
We think we know how to get it back on track…..we should embrace technology, develop new ones use whats available to make it work, let go of the old ways they are just holding things back, They think if they just could control things again everything would be back to “normal” again, the new technologies are ruining everything…………. there are even people who ride the fence
what if all of us have got it all wrong?!!!!
does any one ever think that?
i mean i definitly agree the industry is in bad shape, but this is an immensly complex situation. have you ever stopped thinking about how to solve the problem and really dug down deep, tried to see every single aspect as a whole and thot
what if while we are trying to fix the problem, our solutions are based on a false assumption of what the actual problem is!!
think about it in a complex situation like the music industry that touches so many different variables it wouldnt be hard to lose track of the real problems
ending notes****
i wrote this post for 3 reasons
1. i was talking to a friend of mine who manages a few i would say medium sized bands( couple on majors couple on indies all of them ful time touring bands) and he called me to vent cause he had like 40 emails and 10 voice mails from bands who called him about managing them, and he said that almost every one of them pretty much their first words were “we have this marketing budget” or “we have a great business plan” or something along the lines of those types of statements, and while he appreciates the professionalism he was pretty much like I HAVENT EVEN HEARD YOUR MUSIC YET! he was like wheres the music!! stop telling me how much money your going to make me just let me hear really good solid music
2. it may be just me but i kina feel the same way, i mean every blog i read or music site i visit is allways like learn to market yourself blah blah blah, do this itll work dont do that it wont work, learn how to capture your audience with great twitter post…. you get my drift. i think ive read one post recently that had anything to do with the actual music!!! and it was on mtt and it was somebodies tips to mixing, thats what im talking about where the tips on how to write better music or better lyrics, how to shape melodies, or use layerings, teach people guys what an arrangement is…music people its about music or rather it should be
3. this was a random musing not sure where i saw it but, i know ive heard it a 1000 times…get a good recording of your demo or no one will pay attention to it, this one im solely talking about people who write a few songs and send them out to industry people……my question is this why do those people say that, is it because they want to see a level of commitment from the artist? maybe. or maybe its cause without “production” most people in the industry wouldnt be able to recognize a great song if it hit them in the face!!!! the ease at which you can make a really good sounding demo in your house for next to nothing hasnt always been around, people did the best they could and hoped somebody heard the MUSIC not the ENGINEERING
thats all ive got to say comment away!
Reader Comments (16)
Craig. This is the funniest, most honest post I've read on MTT in awhile. I wished that it was more grammatically correct, but nevertheless you speak the truth. We could ALL be wrong. Hopefully we don't take the position that we are right all the time, but instead provide a positive forum for real discussion and collaboration.
The music SHOULD come first, but I for one assume that you have or are on your way to accomplishing that. This blog is primarily about the business...true, but we should never loose sight of the real goals and problems that artists face. Bravo for stepping in to shake the blankets a bit.
I even went back to your initial post about MTT Radio. Brutal commentary, but possibly true. How has your opinions changed since July?
haha thanks kevin i like to think of myself as free spirited grammatically haha.....
We are not wrong, we as in in those who post on MTT, and many other blogs i read!
The problem and i dont kid when i reckon it's one of the only problems, is how do you go from what you have been reading on say MusicThinkTank and put it into practice?
This is exactly the problem! Because you mention marketing, i can mention SEO[search engine optimization]. Its the beginnings of marketing on a web level and is split up into two main categories. Once you complete one you continue with the other which is Offline and voila you are guaranteed 'Organic' listeners to your website....
You must also remember that we are still with web2.0 and there are still a million great ideas to come out of it, we have the majority of the tools and we just need to start using them correctly..
Damn i was so set in the frame of mind that 'i had/have the answer' but now you have me thinking :D
hey martin thanks for the comments, i was in no way saying we are wrong, i said what if we are wrong, i was saying what if by paying all the attention to marketing or SEO we forget to write and perform great music....
I get your question, and I do think it's important to take a step back and remember what we're all doing this for. However, to ask that question is in a way to suggest that artists and those who support them aren't able to both create great music and run successful businesses. Of course, many artists can't. But many can, or at the very least have the potential to.
That's what these discussions are really all about - helping artists come up with new ways to do what they do and find success in it. A passion for writing great music and thinking/writing/reading about how to find listeners and make money doing it are not mutually exclusive. The same artist can do both (and hopefully most artists do.)
A bit late to the party but ........... you are definitely right when you state "it seems to me it all boils down to the industry is screwed up and all over the place and everyone is just trying to find their way….."
At issue is that the Internet provides us with too many choices. Who are you marketing to? Where are they? How do you find them? How do you keep them?
The music industry is not about "good" music, it is about "good" marketing - how else do you explain the popularity of Lady Gaga - the music doesn't matter - I don't know one single song she's done, but I definitely know about her. THAT is effective marketing .... or is it? I may know of her, but that wasn't enough to want to purchase one of her songs.
From 2000 to 2009 there has been no era defining album or sound similar to Nirvana's Nevermind or MJ's Thriller to The Beatles Sgt. Pepper. Is that lack of marketing or lack of "good" music? Or something else??
in 2000 "illegal downloads" were seen as the problem, the RIAA subsequently tried to end it by suing, yet they didn't realize, the 'illegal downloads" were not the problem, but a symptom of the problem. 2010 will bring in an era in which the music industry is still trying to find its way.
"What if we are all wrong?" Actually, I do think you are all wrong. You have proposed solutions without defining what the problem is.
There isn't a problem in music, unless you want to make a living at music. Then it could be a problem because so many other people want the same thing and are approaching the same audiences.
If you approach music as something that people want to do and enjoy sharing to such an extent that they will do it for free, then you can pursue music as a form of creative expression rather than as a job.
You can approach the economics of music much differently if you start with the premise that those who make a living at this are the exception rather than the rule.
Most of the people who upload videos to YouTube never give any thought to making money with their creations. Music is headed that direction. Is that bad? Not if the goal is expand music-making technology to everyone who ever wanted to be part of a music-making process. Maybe they will earn no fame and no money, but they will still achieve a sense of accomplishment.
Right now talent in music is still at a premium, but technology keeps putting out music tools that sufficiently blur the difference among musical performers that the less-than-talented find ways to compensate. And then we start redefining talent. New tools, new ways to deliver music. I expect this trend to continue.
Good points Suzanne - perfectly valid in the context in which you state them.
What separates one band or singer from another? All things being equal, it's typically marketing .... and by that, I don't mean plastering blogs and online sites with "listen to this," "buy my music," but marketing in the sense that your "product" is more desirable vs someone else's. No one needs a McDonald's Big Mac but through proper marketing, they create a want/desire for your kids to go there. But that is only part 1 in a marketing strategy ..... the list goes on.
Suzanne states "Right now talent in music is still at a premium, but technology keeps putting out music tools that sufficiently blur the difference among musical performers that the less-than-talented find ways to compensate." Yes, this is true but it works both ways .... tools are used to, pardon the pun, "fine tune" the supposedly talented in the recording studios. When singers revert to lip-syncing during live performances, you know there is a reason for that.
Also, it's one thing to have the tools, it's a totally different matter to know how to use them and different again, in being creative in using the tools. Think back to the days of The Beatles .... without George Martin's creativity, The Beatles may not have been the success that they were.
If you ask 10 people what the "problem" is and what the root cause is, I think you'll get 10 different answers. That is why 2010 will still find the music industry trying to find it's way. And, until it does, the road that Suzanne describes will be followed.
If you ask 10 people what the "problem" is and what the root cause is, I think you'll get 10 different answers.
Yes, to the fans getting more free music, there probably isn't much of a problem. To a record label that has already paid for the music and is now trying to generate a return-on-investment, there is a problem. For musicians who are inherently good at marketing (Amanda Palmer is a good example), there are more opportunities than problems. But for musicians who just want to make music and don't have a team of people willing to do the marketing, making money might be a problem.
I got so tired of hearing people talking about how to monetize music, I decided to tell everyone there is no money in music to clear out everyone who is doing it for the money. Hopefully that will leave those who are doing music because they feel passionate about it. Some will make money and some won't.
Because I've been watching more and more fans at shows paying more attention to what they are doing (texting, taking photos and videos) than intently listening to the music, I think fans are looking for ways to become more a part of the process themselves. That's why I have been telling artists not to totally count on a community of fans who will provide the necessary financial support. If fans decide they would rather spend their money on music-related tools than on purchasing music, going to shows, and buying merchandise, the music business is going to evolve some more.
Right now people are assuming that music will still be an artist-focused business, with DIY artists replacing major labels, but still depending on an artist-to-fan model. But maybe that won't happen. Maybe the pie will be sliced up so thinly that everyone will be a music creator more than they will be music consumers. We will all be our own stars, and there won't be anyone left to be fans.
I'm not looking at what we'll be dealing with in 2010. I'm looking down the road a bit further. We've got all these artists who think they will build fanbases that will sustain them for the next 10, 20, or 30 years. But what if that's not where music is headed?
Music, technology, industry, and business are mutually exclusive ideals. Why put them all in the same equation and try to come up with a correct answer?
Janet Hansen
Scout66.com
"Music, technology, industry, and business are mutually exclusive ideals. Why put them all in the same equation and try to come up with a correct answer?"
Yes, but the "Big" labels found a way to do this for decades; and they dominated the markets, made big $$$$ as did some of the bands/singers of the day. That's why everyone is trying to come up with an answer - it's not about the music, but about making the Big bucks again.
I think the key element that changed was technology, specifically two different aspects; the Internet and affordable recording equipment/software. These two elements together eliminate the need to even use a label or recording studio which resulted in a proliferation of music - some good, a huge amount bad.
For another view of what's going on, I would suggest reading Bob LefSetz's blog (just do a google search).
Cheers,
Steve
I know a lot of musicians, of varying degrees of talent. Virtually all of them think in terms of having people come listen to them. They make the music and then they get audiences. If they are good enough and also know how to sell or have others working for them who know how to sell, maybe they make some money.
I've been one of those people who helps the musicians sell. I do it for those I am involved with because I believe they are talented and I want to help them out. I don't do it for a percentage or a fee, so I haven't been financially benefitting personally. But I know the business well enough that when non-music people try to tell me how many opportunities there now are, I point out the challenges ahead.
What I have been doing lately is reframing the basic relationship between fans and artists. If the premise is that artists will continue to have fans who pay them money, I think there are some big challenges ahead as more artists try to do this and everyone is trying to get money from the same pool of fans.
However, if you start thinking in terms of music being something you want everyone to do, in varying degrees of time, effort, and talent, then the more people we reach with music-making tools, the money success we have. Think of it like driving a car. If we have just a few people who know how to do it, then they can charge quite a bit. If everyone drives a car, it no longer is considered an elite skill (except among race car drivers), but more people have the flexibility to drive themselves around.
Suzanne, pardon the pun ....... you are right on the money with your points.
If you look at the Internet as a whole, the possibilities have greatly expanded for getting your music out there ......... but who's listening?? I've been on many sites from My Space to OurStage to ReverbNation - lots of good music on these sites but the artists placed them there for "fans" to listen to .... not other musicians! None of these sites will divulge the true stats as to how many "non-musician fans" they have. Without that knowledge, is it worth my effort to post my music and maintain these sites??
In terms of fans, where do they start to listen to music? Do they go to YouTube, iTunes, on-line radio? So many sites to choose from. And, if they like one particular site, do they ever check out others?? With so many choices for a "fan" how do you target them in terms of marketing? I sure wouldn't want to be starting out in the music industry thinking I can make a living at it.
The music industry hasn't finished evolving yet .... I wonder what it'll be like, even 5 years down the road. Will there even BE a music industry??
I have an artist in mind who is a huge success on YouTube. She has an international following. But right now I can't tell if that will translate into money for her. (I don't work with her, but I love her music and have been following her career closely since I learned about her.) She's been getting more and more gigs in her local area and starting to do some small tours to play coffee house shows, many of which are free. But until she actually gets lots of people buying her music, paying for shows, ordering merchandise, I'm not sure if it will be possible to gauge if YouTube popularity will turn into meaningful financial success for her.
I think that is the big IF in music right now. You can have audiences who love you online, but translating that into an income involves more steps, more skills, understanding fan psychology, etc.
Companies like Topspin are monitoring sales for the artists who use the company. They are working on a model that says, "X% of fans will spend money." If you believe those percentages are consistent for a band/artist or, even better, if you believe those percentages are consistent for all bands/artists, then the more fans you reach, the more money you make. But do we know that for sure, yet?
Direct marketing has been accumulating data like that for decades. They know that for a direct mail pitch or an email pitch, a small percentage of people will purchase. The goal is to refine the pitch and the target audience receiving the pitch to increase those percentages.
What I see happening in music are lots of musicians being told they can find their fans and then make money at this. So if every aspiring musician starts recording and uploading music, and we give everyone more tools so they can do this, we end up with a vast number of people making music, which is definitely more than the world can provide a decent living.
That's why I keep writing, "Whoa. You know it isn't all that easy to do this for money. Have you thought about making music for fun, creativity, self-expression, etc. and not trying to make money from it? That's where music is headed for most people and that's okay."
I just caught a typo in the message I posted on Dec. 28. That should have read (correct word in caps):
"However, if you start thinking in terms of music being something you want everyone to do, in varying degrees of time, effort, and talent, then the more people we reach with music-making tools, the MORE success we have."
Hi Suzanne,
sublimnal faux-pas typing money instead of more?? LOL I understood what you meant, regardless. Have a Happy New Year everyone!!
Cheers,
Steve