February 9, 2015 Haggle Your Way to the Stage: 4 things to know when negotiating with venues
The Honolulu market was loud, hot and crowded. Tables, booths and storefronts laid out their best merchandise on wooden fold-out tables – piles and piles, like a farmer stacks hay. Towels, T-shirts and the other usual touristy garb with sea turtles, surfers or “Hang Loose!” colorfully scrawled on the front hung from every rafter.
It’s a visual and auditory overload.
Dazed, I walked through a small sea of kiosks selling the same rings made of Koa wood (an endangered species found on the island). I stopped, only really to let my family catch up, and spotted a nice sterling silver ring inlaid with this beautiful endangered wood. The owner, a portly Asian man, slid out from behind his booth and with a heavy accent said “Which one do you want?” presuming I was a solid prospect and not just idly staring at his display case.
Caught off guard I blurted, “I like this one.” He slides open the glass door reaches in and pulls it out. “Try it on,” he says as he punches $30 into the cash register. “Woah, woah. I’m just looking,” I said. He studies me over the top of his glasses and says “Alright, for you $25.”
“I’m just looking. I’m not sure if it’s what I want.”
“How about $20?”
“I want to show my wife first.” Here’s me deploying the classic husband stall tactic.
“$18.” It wasn’t a question.
“You know, let me go find my wife and I’ll be back.” I’m starting to see a pattern now, but I’m also still a little uncomfortable with this exchange.
“$15. That’s as low as I can go. I’ll be shut down in a month if I sell rings for this low.”
“…alright, I’ll take it.” I don’t know if it was the guilt or the uneasiness that forced me to buy it, but I did like the ring.
You see I’m a born and raised city boy growing up in Canada, arguably the most polite country in the world. In malls, stores hang large “Up to X% off!” signs and there’s no room for haggling when they’ve put the prices in Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson-sized font.
Like citizens of a lot of developed countries, it’s not engrained in us to haggle. The price posted is the price paid. But my trip to Hawaii – while not the traditional negotiating experience – opened my eyes and I began to look at the world through hagglers’ eyes.
1. KNOW WHO YOU ARE
Confidence in negotiating with venues comes from knowing exactly what you have to offer and being realistic with what you want. Ask yourself these questions:
- How much influence do I have? Example: If you can pack the place to ‘the-owner-is-worried-about-fire-regulations’ capacity, you have wiggle room. Be ready to prove this with past examples if they haven’t heard of you.
- What am I offering? “We’re a five-piece pop-rock band. We have an an hour and a half set playing originals with 3 covers thrown in. We’re engaging and entertaining (be prepared with comments if possible). We have a 45 min opening acoustic act and we have all the gear minus the P.A. system.” Knowing what you have to offer, helps you be confident.
- What do I want? For tonight’s show you want exposure to a different market. Tomorrow you want to make a good relationship with a venue. On Thursday you need to start saving for your next record. Knowing what you want will keep you from saying yes to something that won’t benefit you.
- What’s on my resume? Keep your education, experience and performance history in the back of your mind. If you can drop a name like “I played Broken City last month,” and it’s similar in size and status to the one you’re approaching, drop the name and give them some numbers on the show.
2. KNOW WHAT THEY WANT
You know who you are and what you want, but how is that going to help but that’s only half the equation. Get the upper-hand by figuring out what the other party wants and always lead with this information.
- Money? It always comes down to money whether we like it or not. If a venue is going to lose money they won’t book you. Tell them how many people you’ve brought into other venues and give precise details of door sales, liquor sales and merch sales if possible.
- Recognition & Exposure? Some venues will take in touring bands for next to nothing just to get their place on the map. This sounds like: “We’re just so happy to have you” and “Can’t believe you’re playing here.” You can feel the “Sure. Sure, whatever you say. We’ll work out the details later,” mentality. If you’re a small band it’s hard to lead with this.
- To know they did a good thing? Let’s not assume that all business owners are evil. There are definitely some that get a great sense of satisfaction from helping someone out or by doing their part for a worthy cause.
3. KNOW THE VARIABLES
Not every venue is going to be the same or have the same goals. Keep a look out for variables (and more) so you can navigate smoothly.
- Well-established venues often have set prices Doesn’t mean haggling is out of the question. Just means, they are used to a certain amount of “yes sir, that will be great, sir” and not a lot of “I was reviewing the contract and I’m not fond of section D.” Hold this in tension with your amount of influence. Even hot venues will bend their prices for the right artist.
- The owner/booking-dude doesn’t know the business Happens all the time. You’re trying to tie up loose ends and they can’t even tell you if they want a guarantee or a door split deal. Spend some time to educate the person and build trust. If they feel like you are weaseling them, they’ll head for the hills.
- The owner/booking manager is a jerk Jerks are everywhere. You might not get anywhere with this guy so feel free to move on. You’re about building relationships, networks and supportive connections. You ain’t getting that from this guy.
4. KNOW WHAT’S UP FOR NEGOTIATION
“Reality is Negotiable. Outside of science and law, all rules can be bent or broken, and it doesn’t require being unethical.” – Tim Ferriss from his book The 4-Hour Workweek, Expanded and Updated.
Here’s a few potential areas for negotiation
- Guarantee – Determine what you believe you are worth and figure out what the venue/promoter is willing to pay.
- Ticket/Door sales - You’re negotiating a door split deal. You’re haggling over the amount that goes to the venue and the amount that goes in your pocket. You have a better chance at getting a bigger piece of the door sales pie if you can guarantee you’ll bring a lot of thirsty and hungry bodies.
- Bar and/or Food sales – Most venues will want to take all of this, but with the right finagling you can take a slice. It’s not uncommon to see artists take 10-30% of a smaller venue’s sales. You have good leverage if the venue isn’t charging for tickets or doesn’t have a cover. This works for venues with small natural draws and little foot traffic.
- Accommodations – If you are influential enough promoters/venues will put you up in a house or hotel when you come to town. If they offer Motel 6 see if you can bump it up to Super 8.
- Rider - These are the small details that the artist expects from the venue – everything from sound gear needed to type of toilet paper preferred. Be realistic here and don’t ask for a medium orange bowl of only yellow peanut M&Ms – you are ruining things for everyone. If you want to be taken seriously, don’t toy with the promoter. Also consider the food and refreshments they offer. Most places will put you on their tab, but some won’t.
THINGS TO KEEP IN MIND:
- Operate from a place of abundance – old sales terms meaning don’t act or sound desperate. If you sound desperate people will think you are desperate.
- Be polite and amicable – people want to work with people they like. Period.
- When at all possible, let the other party make the first offer – let them offer first so you can counter. If you offer first and it’s low and they were willing to go higher, you’re sunk.
- If you are a replacement (the other band cancelled) you might have more freedom to negotiate – if it’s close to D-day, and you’re a fill-in, the desperation meter is probably pretty high. Be reasonable, but it’s OK to ask for more. It is after all short notice.
ABOUT BRANDON WAARDENBURG
Founder of Apparatus as well as a musician, songwriter, “musicpreneur” and consultant. After receiving my BA in Music back in 2011 I began working with independent artists, songwriters, producers and engineers to empower and educate them in their quest to retain creative control. Join my free email list here.
Reader Comments (3)
I found that negotiating a sound check on multi band nights was worth its weight in gold.
Absolutely! Anything (as you know) can be negotiated. Thanks for commenting.
Just FYI as a citizen of a third world country who does not haggle, haggling is not ingrained in *all* citizens of a third world country. We can be awfully polite too, even if our country isn't voted No. 1 in politeness.